Lucas Czarnecki: How and when did you get the idea to upgrade Dispatch and Stainless?

Cyrus Highsmith: I think it was 2020. That makes it sound like we worked on it the whole time, which is not how it works, of course. But that’s when it was originally planned. They’re pretty popular typefaces, and they were pretty out-of-date, in terms of their character sets and their features, so I thought designers would appreciate a refresh.

LC: You have described Stainless as originally derived from Dispatch; in what ways does it depart from Dispatch?

CH: Stainless started by just cutting the Slabs off. You can do that in a systematic way, so that the presence of slabs is the only difference… Or you can do it in a more refined way. You cut off the slabs and then you respond to how that changes its appearance. That’s what I did with Stainless: I cut the slabs off, and then I responded to it. The contrast changes and some of the waistlines change because the slabs aren’t filling up so much space.

LC: To what degree did Type Network play a role in the upgrade process?

Guido Ferreyra: Type Network doesn’t do the hard part. We are here for the foundries during their process, and we share as much information as we can about how to solve specific issues. These are huge, complex families. So, we have a back and forth during the process. We try to give as much input as possible and be another pair of eyes for our partners.

CH: I would agree with that, mostly; although, I would say that Type Network does do the hard part, because those technical details are important and hard to catch. And the standards and tools are hard to keep up to date with because they’re always changing. It’s a huge family, and we’re creating the static fonts at the same time, so we really rely on Type Network to help us get these typefaces across the finish line. The last 10% is difficult.

LC: Feel free to get in the weeds if you want: What is it about the last 10% that makes it difficult?

CH: When I’m testing the fonts myself, I don’t notice the issues. I’m using relatively high-level typesetters like InDesign and applications like that. It’s not until you’re doing complex stuff, deep in browsers, or having to support various apps on Windows or other platforms when these technical details become more critical. Testing the fonts in PowerPoint on Windows 98 or something like that—or maybe not even that far back—but we want them to work on all the platforms. And it’s awesome when it does.

LC: How important is it to know that the fonts will work for any kind of person doing basically any kind of thing?

GF: You know, I struggle with this all the time. I’ve been working on that “last 10%” for ten years, probably. Sometimes I think maybe it’s not necessary, but on the other hand, you find users on different platforms or with use cases where they are accustomed to fonts that are really, really well made.

For instance, fonts that come with your operating system are generally perfect in terms of software quality. So, imagine a user who is used to those fonts: When they get a retail font, they expect the same level of quality in terms of the usage and function. Sometimes you think the important thing is the design, but from the user standpoint, any small technical issues become huge problems. It’s something banal most of the time; you don’t even notice it until you get the failure.

LC: Cyrus, how much of a better type designer are you now than when you designed Dispatch and Stainless the first time?

CH: That’s a good question. I hope I am a better type designer now. Dispatch and Stainless were my first major typefaces, and Dispatch I drew as part of a proposal for a newspaper. They said they wanted a slab serif option. This is when I was working with David Berlow and Tobias Frere-Jones; they said, Cyrus, you sketch the slabs, because no one thought the client would go for it. And, in fact, they didn’t. That was probably good because—to be honest—if it had happened, I would have been in way over my head. I had never finished a typeface at that level. I had done some display faces and had been an assistant for other people. But to do my own original design… that would have would have been like, oh shit, now what do I do?

But I liked the design, and I liked slab serifs. I had learned when I was a student that slab serifs were for westerns: Wanted posters, narcotic elixirs, and things like that. They weren’t for real typography or serious typography. Baskerville and Bodoni wouldn’t use a slab serif! We were taught to look down on them. I was curious to see, could you do something cool with a slab serif? And could you make it look like something that’s not from a spaghetti western. Of course, there are slab serifs like that already, and more were coming out around the same time. Around the turn of the century, slab serifs suddenly became a big part of the editorial typographic palette in a way that they weren’t before. I think Dispatch played a role in that change. That’s why it became a popular design: It was the right moment. That was amazing for me as a young type designer.

When I look at the drawings now, I see these squarish, really tense curves, and I think that really reflects my state of mind when I was drawing it. I was pretty wound up and pretty tense. I was putting myself under a lot of pressure to become a type designer. So, I see the design as a reflection of my own state of mind 25 years ago.

LC: What happens if someone is using a variable font that was imprecisely made?

CH: The main thing will happen is you’ll get a kink in the outline. So, for some reason, getting a curve to go smoothly into a diagonal in a variable font is very difficult. So, we made some tools to help us with the math. You’re balancing getting the shapes to look the way you want them to and getting the math to interpolate the way it the way it needs to.

LC: Is this a new problem that arose with variable fonts?

CH: Kind of, because if you’re making static instances, the chances are that mathematically, you just don’t see the kinks. They’re not going to happen at every instance, so it’s not until you’re moving through them with a slider that you see the outline go wonky. Mathematically it’s not new. We just never noticed them.

LC: I am all out of questions. Thank you both for your time. And to our readers: License Dispatch 2 and Stainless 2 to put Cyrus’s years of expertise to use in your designs.

CH: Thank you! I’m looking forward to seeing what everyone creates with these typefaces. Also, thank you Guido and Glenda [Bellarosa, Type Network’s library manager] for all the help getting these over the finish line.